So there I was sitting in my therapist’s office. It was more than a handful of years ago, therapy was something that I would never have considered on my own, but it was a benefit of my post-accident, car insurance plan.
My Ex-Narcissist was long gone, my physical injuries from the accident, healed, I was starting to date again. I looked better than I ever had, but I had not unfortunately done enough, or at least I hadn’t done the right kind of self-work. I was still codependent, the issue, never addressed or even acknowledged by my therapist, but I knew although my body had changed, my self-image had not.
Getting back out there was difficult. I knew I was out of my element. The rules had changed since I’d been out of the game. I didn’t know how I was supposed to act, or how I should feel. Suddenly I felt like I was 20 again. I was in no man’s land for sure. Online dating was an acceptable thing now, but what I didn’t know was that really unhealthy people used it as a playground.
I was to discover that I wasn’t nearly healthy enough, or experienced enough, to maneuver through the maze of men that I would encounter. I was still fragile. I had just put my shattered pieces back together again – the glue hadn’t finished drying and I still felt quite vulnerable and there I was putting myself at the mercy of strangers, who couldn’t care less about what I had just been through.
So that day, as I sat in my psychologist’s office, I had an epiphany – I realized that I was more concerned with how my dates felt about me, than how I felt about them. This was an important discovery. I didn’t know what to do with it, but it was a huge revelation nonetheless.
This need to be liked, even by those I didn’t like, had me feeling really insecure. I still felt like I had to be perfect – I still felt like I had to look perfect and act perfect. My strength I believed was my intelligence and my sense of humor, so I would put on a show, all with the hope that they would like me.
Sometimes this need to please had me going further than I would have liked, if you know what I mean. I remember meeting a guy at a sports bar, we had dinner and while I listened to him talk, it was clear he was a massive player and had a huge harem. At least that’s what he wanted me to believe. I had this pull to want him to choose me, but I wasn’t interested in him enough to jump through all the hoops I knew he would have laid out for me. But I was still polite, still content to sit through it all and smile. At the end of the date, he asked me if I wanted to go to a hotel room. I told him I had to get up early (a lie), but he ended up walking me to my car and once we got there, he leaned right into me and started kissing me. The make-out session was so over the top that someone drove by and screamed, “Get a room.”
The problem was I had already made up my mind at dinner, that this guy wasn’t for me, so what the hell was I still doing there with his tongue down my throat? If it gets to the point where you are sleeping with someone on the first date, all in the name of just getting them to like you, you’re doing yourself a massive disservice and are likely going to get the opposite of what you’re hoping for. I’m no prude, but I’ve been there done that and felt like shit after.
Another first date I had was in a nice restaurant in the harbor, with an attractive man. The problem was that he kept going on and on about his ex-wife. It was clear he wasn’t over her and was still devastated by the break-up and most definitely emotionally unavailable. He shouldn’t have been dating. He wasn’t ready, but more importantly, I should have cut the date short when I realized it, but I didn’t. Instead I felt insecure, in some way, because he wasn’t choosing me over his ex-wife. Because I was codependent I was listening and being way too sympathetic to his sob story, when I should have been upset that he had wasted my time.
I still had a great fear of hurting others, or of being confrontational, which meant that often my dates would go home thinking that it was a great date, while I had already made the decision that it was going to be a one and done. I didn’t have the stuff to say to someone that I wasn’t interested in another date, I’d smile and nod, then do the avoiding dance over the next few days, until they got the message.
While there is nothing wrong with being nice or compassionate, there is something wrong with allowing yourself to be used, or not pressing your own self-interest, especially when you are meeting a stranger on a first date. When your need for external validation exceeds your ability to practice self-care, you should not be dating. Period.
It was a long time before I learned how to conduct myself on a first date. I had put a lot of hours into my healing and could approach a potential partner being fully whole and not needing anything from anyone. When you are not desperate for a mate you have a lot more options and you make better choices.
What I started doing was really listening on my dates. If I heard things I didn’t like, I wasn’t going into ‘ubber understanding/compassionate mode,’ which meant I continued on when I shouldn’t. Instead, if I heard, “I used to have a drinking problem,” I would think, yeah that’s unfortunate for you, but it’s not a gamble I’m willing to take and I’d end the date early and not contact them again. If I heard I’m 35 and I live with my parents, I’d be thinking, yeah not for me. Is it being judgmental? You bet it is and it’s my right to be. The role of significant other is the second most important role in the play of my life. That role doesn’t go to just anyone.
The key to surviving a first date is to always be mindful of your codependency, which means if you recognize that you are being too nice, too understanding, too interested in whether or not they like you, then you need to take a step back. Instead ask yourself, does this person have their act together and look at your decision to continue from a logical point of view. That doesn’t mean that being attracted to the person isn’t important, but if looks are your only focus, you’re probably going to be disappointed somewhere down the road.
Before you date have an idea of what you’re looking for, that way it’s not just a shot in the dark. If having a good job, being stable and family oriented is on that list and your date is unemployed, living on his friends couch and hasn’t talked to his parents in 6 years then don’t apologize – be ok with wanting what you want, but do learn how to politely and respectfully end a date without wasting a lot of your time and theirs.
The key to beating codependency when it comes to dating is being in charge of yourself, knowing what you want, actively seeking it, walking away from what you don’t want and not feeling the need to apologize for putting your interests first. When you can do that, you’re ready to step back out there and be part of something healthy.
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I’m 42 and realised this is me, it’s not about dating but it is about being validated by men even tho I’m happily married. I’m not a model but I’m not too bad and for most of my adult life I’ve had male attention when I go out which I’ve used to help me feel good and it gives me a lift I get nowhere else, not my husband even…is that normal. But now I’m aging I’m strugglingi don’t go out often and when I do I’m starting to feel old, but worse still not getting that buzz from males makes me feel not just unattractive but very negative about myself now, which just isn’t right and I want to be able to feel content in who I am as I age and it to be something I control rather than get externally. How can I stop needing that validation when I’ve needed it all my life?
Well that was just like looking at myself in the mirror!! You have such a great way with words whixh exactly summed up how I have been behaving for years!! I too came to a realisation that I’d been seeing dates as some sort of audition process with me trying to win over my date, even if that meant stretching the truth about myself or changing my opinion on a subject so as to have things in common!! I know how silly that sounds but my low self esteeme meant that I was so scared of rejection and I would do these things to impress and be liked!! I am currently having a break from dating to do some more self discovery, this site is definitely helping along with so mindfulness and meditation! I need to work out what I really want from a relationship and make sure I don’t put all the enthersist on me being the perfect partner after all it takes two to tango!!!!x
I realized when I tried to date, during one of the many breakups with N, that all I owe them is the pleasure of my company for whatever we agreed to do. Period. I found myself, trying not to hurt their feelings when they thought dinner meant they could paw on me and stick their tongue down my throat, and I resisted.I’d be apologetic. BS! You’re worth more than a meal, and youre not obligated for anything else. They should concern themselves with your feelings if they like you and want to date you…. and aren’t just trying to get laid. I’ll buy my own dinner! Especially since I had done nothing to lead them to think there’d be more. I should’ve heeded red flags and not agreed to a date in the first place with these 2 that did that. But….N had me in such turmoil, I couldn’t see straight. Now I can, and will wait till it’s right.
After following your blog for months since my divorce from my Narcissist husband I am proud to have a success story. I went out this week with a nice, attractive and successful man but when he wanted us to commit on the first date my “N” radar went up. Admittedly, I was flattered by his admiration (“I am SO into you, you’re mine, you’re exactly what I’m looking for”) so even though I saw flags, I agreed to meet up a couple of days later. Honestly the date was great, romantic and fun, but he continued to be extremely over the top in his admiration (for only two dates). Later that night we talked about the possibility of a “sleepover” and I mentioned that I had a male house guest (an out of state friend) and that I felt it would make him uncomfortable if I had an overnight guest, so I would defer to his place. My date went into an extreme, very black & white “He wins. I lose” tantrum. He was very emotionally manipulative. He made it totally about him, no respect at all for my feelings. and I knew in that moment that I was not a real person to him, just “supply.” I was pleasant and kind, but firm. Bye-Bye narcissist!
Truly, your insights and the discussions in this forum have been SO helpful and empowering to me. Thanks for contributing to my success story.
Hi Savannah, how do I apply this at work? I recently started at a new company and exactly what you were describing at your first dates, I did at work. Apologised for doing my job, doubting myself and wanting to be accepted and liked.
What you said about being aware of my Co dependency is a tool to keep in mind but is there anything else you can suggest that will help me? Oh and being in different, I am sure will also help. My biggest fear is that people will see I am insecure and the next Narcissist will zoom in….. I feel so vulnerable, especially because I only now realized what I was doing wrong all these years.
Thanks for being there for us. This is another article that is very timely and written by someone who definitely been there and is there. I have much work still to do on myself. As a man, I have saught sex when I really just wanted love. It seems more masculine to seek sex then to say you need to feel closeness and love from another person.
I agree with all, another great article. With a childhood that combined a mother role model that could have been the CEO of the People Pleaser Association plus super critical, i developed the need to be liked. ..desperately liked. Have never had a healthy relationship yet. And right now, I’m not a candidate for one. ..yet. I have always had a body image issue that had kept me feeling less than. I am searching for a good therapist. I know what a good one is. I had one but moved away from her. Can’t seem to find an equivalent in this smaller city.
Got email again from N. He doesn’t give up easily. This time i didn’t respond. But it shakes me up. I get physically ill. I am still in a place of feeling bad about hurting someone. Even after all the hurt he put on me. Grrrr. Next step is to get past that and have no emotions next time he tries contact. Am good at ignoring his emails but haven’t blocked him yet. Next step as well.
I enjoyed reading your article. As always, you continue to teach us and I have learned so much from your blog. I have been 1 yr. NC with my Narcissistic husband as of today. I am close to finally closing this chapter in my life, as the divorce is not quite settled yet. However, dating has not even been something I have entertained. It is uncanny how I can smell a Narc a mile away now. I often wonder if I will ever be ready for that leap. I am content on my own, discovering the person I lost long ago. Getting used to being alone was hard at first, but I revel in it now. I can finally take care of myself, body and mind, no one else scrambling my brain, picking and gnawing. Most of the men that have approached me for a date were either too needy, or pushy or controlling for my liking. The answer was always no. I like my life the way it is and will continue to stay on task. I have not been alone since I was 15 years old. After I have reached all the goals I have set in place for myself, only then will I consider dating. It has been 2 and a half years since we split. In that time the healing has been wonderful, the work to get there excruciating, but worth every single minute. When I am ready, I will come back to reference your earlier articles as I am sure I will need the guidance. Many Thanks to all who share their stories too.
I really appreciate this post and I realize reading it that I am closer to being ready to date but I am not there yet.(almost 6 years single) A phrase I have been saying to myself is ‘if every man looked exactly the same – who would you date?’ It would never be my ex no way! I married someone I didn’t like because his toxicity merged so well with mine back then and I got burned. I still have a lot of work to do and I get lonely but it is better than being treated as worthless on a daily basis!
Great read … I now see and understand alot if my past behavior, and choices ! Definitely have eyes wide open and am in tuned to my desires ! Thank you Savannah for the validation of not being crazy ! The best is yet to come !!!
Another great article Savannah!! I feel so fantastic after reading this article. A validation in my healing process. So true to take the time for self care, figure out what you want and several months ago I had an ephipany very similiar to what you described, huge turning point. For any of you who have the slightest feeling of being there or not I just say take some more time for you! You won’t be sorry. 🙂
I have found the phrase that works for me. As soon as I knew someone wasn’t going to compliment my life I would just say ” I have enjoyed meeting you but this is just not going to work for me.” I have said this via text and in person. Let me tell you I saw some true colors of other people that totally validated my decision and that my “gut” red flags were working as they should for my best interest.
Self Care is not selfish its vital and healthy. Sending self care vibes for healing. 🙂
Hi Savannah,
I was married to two men that were both totally wrong for me. Kept getting the same old, same old. Then I reunited with my HS sweetheart! Who is a Narc.I found this out after he broke up with me. I looked up online “men who lack empathy”and found a plethora of information on NPD. Nailed his behavior on the head!That is when I FOUND YOUR BLOG!!!During this past year, I looked at my past relationships with men but also my childhood. Raised by a mother who was very critical and judgmental and my dad who was distant. I knew I was “loved” but not the way I needed, Thus, I became co-dependent…always putting others needs in front of mine.To always do the right thing and be perfect in other’s eyes. So now having done that self-work I am financially independent, confident, learned to say “NO”. I am dating again and have met some nice men but also have met some “wrong for me” men!! The last guy I dated said “you are too controlling” this in response to wanting me to work regular hours and be at his beck and call to see him.He also was pushing to be more intimate which I had said, I want to go slow and get to know you first. He stated he was confused and frustrated. I knew I was making the RIGHT choice for me and NOT feeling “BAD” about it one bit. I have a handful of friends who I have shared your blog with but they have yet to do the self-work they need to do to stop making the same mistakes with men and be happy. For the past 4 years I worked on being happy alone and I am truly happy for the first time in my life. I have choices, friends and now an active and healthy dating life. I make the choices good for me. Thank you again for this blog!!!
I can relate to several things you said. Before I started dating the N in January 2015, I was thinner than I’d been in 20 years and certainly felt the most confident. But instead of worrying if I liked him, I felt so giddy with the over the top love bombing. I blew off tons of red flags. I broke up with him countless times only to romanticize the past and try again, not fully realizing the man I feel in love with didn’t even really exist. It was all an act. Now I’m up 60 pounds but still willing to venture out into the dating world. I’m finding it easier to say no and have higher standards but still find my codependency kicking in as I smile, nod and politely ask questions without receiving the same courtesy back. We’ll see. I refuse to spend my life crying alone and feeling unworthy of a normal, healthy relationship regardless of what I weigh (and the N did his best to imply I was too fat even at normal weight, which made me more insecure which lead to binge eating big time). All I know is I don’t want to feel like I have to be nearly perfect before I can date again because that really sets me up for a fall.
So true for me in everyday life. I am aware and have improved, starting with the Narc. After stopping our usual means of communications, I kept all gates to other personal communications closed. He hovered and tried to suggest chat or messaging, I declined or ignored, not caring if that hurt him. Me being so firm surprised him as well.
Wow! Described me. Thanks for the insight , this article helps a lot. I totally get it and will work on myself before letting anyone else in. Thank you!!
Wow, are you following me around? This article is my issue right now.
After 30 years with my N. I’ve been Divorced 6 years. Dated a nice guy who was going nowhere for 4 years.
I’m back in the dating world. I know I’m not ready. I ended up being that guy’s Mom. Doing too much. I really was taken for granted. We were a mismatch on so many things, yet it carried on for 4 years because he didn’t treat me bad like my N.
But what I found out by accident was that this boyfriend of 4 years was like my Dad. I accidentally called him Dad one day instead of his real name. I wondered why I did that.
Omgosh, he did remind me of my Dad!
He was kind, easy going, but not self motivated, was a Diamond in the rough, I thought, if only I could tweak him into the guy I was looking for….Red Flag.
My N of 30 years was definitely just like my N Mother. Took my Divorce to get that mess. I knew the signs of an N, so I thought. Out on my own, working with a bunch of guys, I get love bombed by an N and almost fell for it, hook line and sinker, until he asked me to marry him almost exactly like my Ex did, almost using the same language. That’s when I freaked, and put a stop to it. I also found out later, that he has a circle of women he takes out regularly to make himself seem popular. I don’t think he would give up this routine for me, although he acted like we were an exclusive item. Omgosh, I almost fell for it again.
So that’s when I pursued the shy guy who was nice. He wasn’t a man-whore, polite, easy going. It was really nice. But since my Ex N, I had been pretty loved starved. Anyway, it went OK for awhile, because it was new. Some things I noticed and took note of were tossed out because of his niceness. But finally after 4 years, I had to wise up and take action for myself. This guy is just like my Dad. Nice and all, but not going to be what I want. But how can I condemn him, when I am not even what I need to be?
Our relationship was a 4 year one night stand. No depth, nothing in common, no ryhm or reason. But I was addicted to him. I got a book on being addicted to a person, and bingo, that was it, back to my childhood again. He was me finding my Dad again.
I’m not dating material. I hope I get it this time. But I’m a sad case. I’m alive with a man, I’m a dead rag by myself. Why can’t I do wonderful things for me like I do for a man? Why can’t I invest in myself, like I do for others? Being codependent is awful. I’m working on me, but its hard. Will let you know. But at least I’m not dating. And I’m still trying to get over the break up with Dear Ole Dad. It’s been a few months.
Fantastic post. “When your need for external validation exceeds your ability to practice self-care, you should not be dating. Period.” and that’s OK! Self care and self love come first and they can take some time to cultivate, but it’s so worth it bc we know how terrible it is to live in that state of co-dependency. May we feel our strength today. Thanks Savannah.
After the discard by a guy I was starting to dislike, I put my people pleasing ways away and started to focus on what I expected and wanted. It’s a valuable lesson. Thank you Savannah. I love the way you write and you’ve taught me a lot.
Thanks for another enjoyable article. I’ve a question unrelated to the article. How do Narcissists avoid the effects of chemical bonding that takes place with all other people male or female in a sexual relationship? I understand that they are both cognitively and behaviourly impaired people. But I’m not completely clear on how they manage to avoid this breaking of a bond that’s occurred on a chemical level after breakups. Is it due to their inability to truly feel their own emotions that they don’t go through the grieving process that non-narcissists go through after breaking up?
Al –
MRI studies show that people with NPD have very different brain activity than normal people. The abuse they suffer, typically in childhood, means that they never complete the process of emotional/physical development. So I would guess, when it comes to the human bonding chemicals you mention, their body probably produces them. But their brains don’t work properly, so they do not stimulate the emotional response that occurs in normal people. (Maybe it’s a lack of brain receptors?) The point is, from what I have read, their emotions are chaotic and scattered, and when they do have strong feelings they typically don’t know how to respond to them. Usually the “true ego” (the stunted real person trapped inside them) just gives way to the impulses of the “false ego” (the egomaniac and attention addict who “runs the show,” and who is a construct or projection borne out of desperation from their abuse). This medicates the feelings. Basically they turn to their addiction to deal with whatever emotions they do feel. (I saw my narcissist do this in real time — it’s an amazing trick they do.) Way deep inside, the emotions do register, and this leads to their moments of despair and agony when they briefly realize they are walking, breathing falsehoods. But then they quickly regain equilibrium by seeking attention (supply) to suppress the overwhelm.
Basically, they are a complete hot mess. Never expect any normal reaction from them. They are damaged. The only thing we can do is get away from them for good.
HC
Thanks for your response hurtin’ cowboy.
This is soo me