Codependency has been described as a dysfunctional relationship with the self. What that means is that the view that we have of ourselves is skewed, both internally and in our interpersonal relationships, because of our early childhood experiences.
It can manifest as hyper self-criticism, low self-esteem, self-sabotage, obsessive thinking, people pleasing behaviors, a lack of boundaries, rescuing behaviors and it makes us hyper-sensitive to the needs of others. As we gain awareness of some of these issues, we realize that there is something off about the way we are interpreting our environment.
I wanted to point out the difficulties, we, as codependents, experience in the way that we think and act to illustrate that perceptual deficiencies exist in a variety of different disorders. For instance a Codependent can be hyper-sensitive to the needs of others and almost seem to have empathy on steroids. Conversely, a Narcissist is self-focused and has an impaired ability to experience empathy. So a Codependent trying to decipher the behavior and motives of a Narcissist is going to have a pretty tough struggle on their hands, mainly because your Narcissist does not think like you and vice versa.
Earlier this week a former employee came by my work to say hello to everyone and to drop off a CD he had just recorded. He was fired about a year ago and had been diagnosed as bi-polar and the word psychopath was also heard around the water cooler. I don’t know if he was diagnosed correctly or not, but I know that there was something really off about him. He did exhibit attention seeking behaviors, a desperate need to be liked and admired, entitlement and several other Narcissistic-like traits. There is some overlap between Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Anti-Social Personality Disorder and it is also possible to be both as long as they fit the criteria for both, but bottom line was, this person, psychopath or not, was a little scary.
The next day the boss came to my office with the CD, “Listen to this,” he said, his face grim. The CD was called Lost and the very first track started with the sounds of a man breaking into a woman’s apartment, her crying and screaming as he beat and strangled her, followed by her rape and murder. In an Eminem type of rap, he rhymed about the joy he was feeling at the thought of her parents finding her that way. There were nine tracks on the CD and every song was about his hatred of women and his desire to do them harm.
Pretty soon an audience gathered and we all stared at each other, as we listened, with wide eyes and our jaws on the floor. “He’s always been dark. It’s just his art,” came one explanation. “Have you heard some of these rap songs today? Much worse than this one,” said another, dismissing it. Once we were alone again my boss asked me, “So what do you think?”
“Recording a CD takes a lot of time and effort,” I said. That’s a lot of time thinking about the subject matter, writing the lyrics and the music, practicing it, recording it. If it was one song, maybe it’s just there for shock value, but knowing him the way we do, the misogyny is there in every song, the desire to act out violent and disturbing behavior is there and what kind of person talks about feeling joy at another’s suffering? I honestly think these are his deepest, darkest desires.”
“Do you think he’ll act on them?” He asked
“I don’t know. Not all psychopaths or narcissist have violent tendencies. He’s never been in trouble with the law for harming anyone before, but he has overdosed. He has very weak impulse control and I hate to think the only thing keeping us and everyone else safe is his ability to maintain that control.”
“I don’t think he’d hurt any of us,” my boss said. “I told him that I was here for him if he ever needed anything. We have some comradery. He thinks of me as a friend.”
“No he doesn’t,” I said. “He does not see you as a friend. He has no friends and when you offer yourself up like that he perceives you as a resource he can exploit, nothing more. You are looking at the situation the way you would think and the way you would behave, but that is not the same way he thinks and perceives the world. That’s where you’re making your mistake. You can’t imagine what it’s like to have no, or at least an impaired ability to feel empathy, because you have empathy. There is no depth to his feelings. There is no bond, no brotherhood. There is only, ‘what can I take from you,’ and ‘how can I get an advantage,’ very predator-like. That’s the lens he views the world from.”
ASPD and NPD are disorders of scale. On one end of the ASPD spectrum you have the serial killer, who enjoys torturing their victims for their own amusement and on the other you have a high functioning, risk taking, self-interested, white-collar worker, who has never harmed anyone, but is always out for their own gain. But as victims of their brand of abuse we have to come to terms with the fact that the way these people think and behave is very, very different from the way we think and feel and trying to fix them and even understand them is preposterous.
I get so many emails from readers asking me to interpret their partner’s behavior. Codependents have a great need to understand. Perhaps it’s because they need a reason to explain away someone’s bad behavior, or they need to have some type of assurance that it wasn’t their fault. They will list a page full of relationship crimes that has left them devastated, peppered with a few nice things he/she has done for them. Because of the codependents poor boundary creation and enforcement, they have great difficulty discerning what proper relationship behavior looks like or how they should be behaving.
“Anyone can be fooled once. The second, third and fourth times require your participation.”
If you’re involved with someone and they are compulsive liars – that’s enough for you to end the relationship. You don’t owe someone your undying support and commitment because they have problems.
If someone cheats on you one time, that’s enough to walk away.
If someone belittles you, shames you, puts you down, blames you, yells at you, that’s enough to end it.
If someone blows hot and cold, that’s enough for you to blow on out of the relationship.
If someone treats you in a demeaning or disrespectful manner, that’s enough for you to end the relationship.
If someone has moved themselves in to your house, they don’t work, or contribute and they suck away all you resources – give your head a shake, no genitalia is worth all that and get them the eff out.
If they are giving you mixed messages it’s enough to say, “This is BS. I deserve better,” and you walk away.
Emotional manipulators exploit. That’s what they do. The reasons they do what they do don’t really matter. The bottom line is that they need you, so they are going to say and do what they have to to elicit your cooperation and if that means lying, stealing, cheating so be it. They’ve got to get their needs met. That in and of itself is the epitome of their existence. It’s pretty simple really and then they have you trying to come up with excuses for them and reason away their behavior – how lucky can you get. When you understand the way they think it should make your decisions a lot easier.
Don’t try to reason with them. Don’t try to get them to see your point of view (which is impossible for a person with no/little empathy). Don’t try to guilt them, or even think that they should know better.
Stop trying to figure them out. They can’t figure themselves out, so you aren’t going to fare any better. It’s enough to know that there is something wrong with the way they interpret their environment and the way they act on that interpretation.
Once you know what you’re dealing with, the onus is on you to get yourself out. I get how hard it is to get away from these types. I’ve written extensively on just why it’s so hard. I get it. I really do, but you really only have two options, get the hell away from them, or let them keep kicking you.
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Hurtin Cowboy, thank you for that response, that really helped me. I’m going to write down the part about concentrating on how someone is making ME FEEL rather than WHY they are making me feel that way! Like instead of “why are you doing this to me” , just thinking, “I don’t feel good with this person. I feel anxious, scared, nervous, unsure. ” I’m really tired of feeling like a weak person, even though I know that it’s not my fault, and I”m not weak, but I do realize i have to stop always wanting to figure people out. I need to realize that it’s detrimental to ME, even though it’s a big part of me! It’s what empathetic people do. But you know what? I’m hurting myself doing this, and I want to stop hurting myself, I want to love myself and respect myself more than i apparently do. A narcissist is what he/she is, they are not worth trying to figure out, hope you’re doing better! like in our heads we realize this is a jerky person, but we keep trying to believe people are good underneath!
Mannnn. I’m still in a relationship where I feel like I’m always trying to understand. He is the one who seems hyper sensitive and attentive to things but only so he can complain about them and I try to be a little nicer or whatever. Also I always think I’m right and I always think of what’s in it for me so am I a narcissist? Or is that my esteem shrinking from always feeling borderline used. Big part of me is like “Just run, just in case” but he definitely always finds his way back to me. And it does feel kinda manipulative that I take him back after fucking up, even though its a little ego trip that he “cant be without me”. I’m sure he can but im just way easier right? fml
Thanks for this article. I also did a lot of analysis of the why and how of the narcs behaviour. First it helped me to figure out what actually happened after the discard from one day to the next. The research brought me to an avoidant-dismissive attachment style, extreme narcissism, lying and a parasitic opportunistic behaviour. We came together in a developing country where I had worked, he came to study while I developed my own business – very busy for both of us. He made empty promisses so, I waited for him to graduate and believed the marriage plans. The sick part was when I die question his behaviour that the narc wrapped all communication in false yoga philosophy talk. “Expectations in love don’t exist, only surrender Blabla.” But he had the highest expectations to be fed and kept warm and I gave.” I think the findings about him made me to think about my own patterns, not to draw sufficient boundaries and being very empathetic but not expecting much. Another thing is that the analysis is for me like a prophylaxis for the future, seeing red flags early on. I agree that finally I will never understand him and that I need to break the cycle of thinking which goes and after some time comes.
Thank you for this strong, forcefully-worded post (the list!!!). Feeling angry and hungover from yet another round of verbal and spiritual abuse from my mother. Yes, I participate in the relationship by “turning the other cheek”, pitying her, trying to honor her, forgive, forget, etc. I am too cowardly to go no contact for real (I have done it for years and months at a time but end up caving). But I can take care of myself today and each day going forward. I don’t know if she is a narcissist or has borderline personality disorder but the important thing is that she isn’t going to change and the only way I can stop her from hurting me is to not speak with her.
Thanks so much to Savannah as well as all the posters! All of this has resonated so much with me! I’ve been with my narc husband for over 20 years, since college. It was years of perfection before the chaos began. I was slowly sucked in and hadn’t even realized what was happening. Then I blamed his cyclic abuse as flip-outs to life changing decisions and immaturity.
Fast forward, and I’m in it deep, we are married with a young child and joint owners of a professional business. For years, he had various cheating episodes, which escalated into a relationship with a long time mistress. He would profess repeatedly that it’s over, and that he finally knows what he wants, just to end up in the same place.
I have finally realized and decided that it’s got to be over. I can’t ever give him one last chance, because the cycle continues indefinitely. I’m at the point where I feel mentally stronger. When I’m firm with him about him needing to leave, he senses the seriousness and then he sucks me back once more. I recognize it, but struggle nonetheless. I find that talking to him is dangerous, as he knows exactly what to say/do to manipulate me.
In the long run, I know it’s best to have NC, and the longer I go without involving him in anything, the better I feel. However I need advice as to how to move forward since we have a child and a business in the short term? It will take time to get out of the business, and I’ll never be completely free from him due to our child. Any thoughts are appreciated!
I am curious, I know there is a lot of talk about male narcissists. But has anyone had run ins with women that are also narcassists. Only in the most recent year did I realize I had been living through emotional abuse for most of my life under the hand of my mother. She tried to control every aspect of my life from what I ate to what time I was allowed to wake up in the morning. She screamed if me if I did anything she dreamed to be “wrong”. And put me down for all the positive things I tried to do making it seem as though everything I did was never good enough and I spent most of my life from child hood trying to simply be the daughter she wanted me to be. It seemed like the only time she was ever pleased was when I did exactly what she said to do the way she said to do it. The only time she seemed to praise anything I did was in front of other people when she would brag about my accomplishment but behind closed doors it was constant fighting and arguing over controlling my life. Even at the age of 30 I felt completely helpless and broken as I struggled to try to do as she asked to take care of her and her needs with my own needs always being put aside for her benefit. I quit jobs, gave up relationships and was very close to giving up my career as a artist all to just serve her the way she wanted. This past year was the hardest of all. She fell ill with cancer and I was basically expected to do nothing but take care of her needs plus work full time and try to complete art projects for either. I started having panic attacks and my health started failing as I found out I was diabetic and had high blood pressure from poor health choices I was making from constant stress and feeling like I was not important. I secretly started seeking counciling hoping that it would help cause I didn’t want her to put me down or criticize me for my battle with depression. When she passed away in may suddenly my whole life turned on its head! I had money to buy personal needs and didn’t have to be screamed at every day. There had been so many days where she told me I was stupid and could not think for myself. Where if I said no or tried to stand up for myself I was threatened with her never speaking to me again or trying to find some way to punish me for those basic things people do every day. I blame my constant getting into poor relationships on her cause I lived in a lifestyle of emotional abuse that I did not realize was abuse. Always choosing to spend my time with guys that mistreated me while claiming that they were not. In fact this year I had been coping with bad decisions I made while in college that still effect me to this day. A dated someone that refused a relationship with me for 4 years that was consummated through the use coercion and guilt and fear and the person on top of that gave me a incurable std. but I was so use to abuse at that point from my family life I didn’t even see what was happening or that I could even do anything to get out of the situation. Just like with my mom I felt obligated and guilty when I knew everything felt wrong and I was unhappy. It took me graduating school and him moving away never to speak to me again before I was able to get out of the situation.
As I said now my mom has died and I feel like my whole life is starting over. For the first time I actually feel like I can even think clearly about my circumstances and from there make good decision for the future. Being able to learn about these things has allowed me to start recognizing really bad signs of a person being abusive or trying to take advantage of my kindness and love. Does any one else here relate to this situation? How long does it take to heal?
To Narcfree – I have had those same thoughts, wanting to contact his current girlfriend and his past girlfriends to find common ground and rant, but I knew they would tell him about it, he would release a tirade upon me, and it would feed his ego, so I will NEVER do that.
If one of them were to contact me, I still would be reluctant to reply, because what if he put her up to it? It’s best to just leave it alone, stay out of the snake’s nest, and let these unfortunate women learn their own lessons, just as we did.
Besides, I am better off when his attention is on someone else and he’s not mentally torturing me.
Narcfree – Forget about the other women. You are looking for external validation, which is a sure sign that you are not free yet. I know because I have been tempted to reach out to my estranged husbands family to talk to them about how he ruined his relationships with them and to validate my reasons for leaving. But I won’t because I know it won’t help it will just keep me stuck. You don’t need anyone to tell you that you made the right decision. You don’t need to take a poll. You know it in your heart and that’s enough. Good luck to you!
I have been no contact with him for about 6 months now. My physical/hormonal attachment to him is finally fading now. I don’t think of him constantly anymore, only sometimes.
There is no one else in my life yet. I needed time to myself. I’m enjoying my free time alone to do the things I love to do. I dance, listen to music, write, do art, all kinds of things.
He was very sexy, and every once in awhile I have a relapse and briefly entertain wanting to initiate contact with him, but first I talk it out with a friend who reminds me “what” he is: He is a user. Women are only “appliances” for him to use until he wears them out, and then he gets another.
I saw a meme on Facebook the other day, which defined a new sexual orientation. “HOBOSEXUAL – Gets into relationships to keep from being homeless” This is my narc exactly. Right now, he’s playing another woman. Better her than me.
Mostly, I keep reminding myself this: “After the things he did and said, he doesn’t DESERVE any contact with me or to know where I am or what I’m doing.” The last words I spoke to him were, “Don’t ever speak to me again.” He came back with a dumb reply, and I blocked him all ways.
Another thing that keeps me strong on the no contact is that I picture myself as a tough, street-smart girl who’s smarter than the average girl who drives men crazy. I warned him in the beginning that I’m a “runner.” He said he “has trouble with intimacy.”
Be a “runner” when you don’t get what you want from a man. Be proud of that. The best lesson a guy can learn is that he can no longer have ANY contact with a woman he disrespects.
BE. STRONG! You’re much better off alone to heal, dry your tears, and dust yourself off, and prepare to get back up on another horse.
Men actually admire strong women who can quickly recognize a jerk when she sees one and is totally done with him and never looks back.
While I’m in the what I hope to be final NC stage – and still having my ups and downs (which is ridiculous as he did everything on this IF list to me) you know what i really want? To talk to any other woman he has done this to. We don’t live in the same town, in fact we live 45 mins away, but he finds his supply on match, so I’m sure there are woman in my town he comes to see. I have been wondering if any of them on here suffering the same. As much as this blog is helping me, I just feel like if the support group was with the woman he did this to as well, it would feel more real – does anyone else seem that way? I’m tempted to post his name and state on here, but I’m sure it’s not allowed.
In fact my last comment resembles your article on the Barometer of Self Love…and although I knew deep within myself it was just him being himself, a weirdo, grrr. I also realise, there is some parenting issues there. As if I am giving him the role of the father to accept my behaviour or to judge it, ‘not good enough’! Phew, why am I even giving this time? But I am!!!! Ok, keep trying, moving forward.
This is a great site to be able to express and through doing so gain clarity. Looking forward to your next article and hope everyone following it is doing well and if not don’t give up, tomorrow is another day, the more we keep trying the more likely we are going to succeed.
You question why codependents have a need to understand…for me it is because I could never understand the behaviour/actions/hypocrisy of my immediate family. It just didn’t make sense to me as a child, I found it very confusing and was constantly trying to understand. Children inherently want to be good, loved and love their parents unconditionally. Therefore, when being given conflicting messages I was forever walking on eggshells trying not to upset them but to understand them. A condition I have carried on into adulthood but am now trying to let go of. Yesterday, I had to meet up with my ex the father of our children, reason being we were going to buy her a joint birthday present. I was speaking, not saying anything in particular but as I turned around I saw him giving me a horrible look behind my back, absolutely nothing new. It hurt, when will he ever stop being so nasty for no reason? I know he won’t and as you say Savannah, not for me to try to figure him out but wow, his arrogance is so annoying! So provocative, so tempting to give him one enormouse smack but then it will be me who looks like the insane one, yet again. I did just ignore it but it has left me feeling depressed and I know it’s my own dumb fault, I am always expecting reasonable behaviour from someone who can’t give it. I suppose after 26 years of being together, 4 divorced I am still hoping to see some sign of love and respect for what has been the greatest amount of time out of our lives and three beautiful children. Nope, it’s just not going to happen, so why am I always disappointed? Something I really have to come to terms with.
Even if at the first read your posts don’t resonate, a few days later of letting the mind mull it over I’ve had some seriously deep insights. Thank you!
Reading these posts have been life-saving for me. I don’t know anyone in my circle of friends who’ve been in a relationship with a narcissist, so it’s difficult for some of them to understand why I struggle so much. I had been with this man for 4 years. We had the classic N and victim relationship – initially he swept me off my feet, only to turn into someone with violent mood swings and emotions. One day he’d adore me and the next he’d call me f’n crazy because I might have asked him how his night was and that meant I obviously was jealous and was stalking him! But then he’d always come back around to his loving, “caring” self and I would “forgive” his antics. This man has called me some of the most horrific names one could imagine…he has raged at me for the most ridiculous things, given me the silent treatment, even insulted my children, and I let him back into my heart after each episode. We’d have one great day together and the next three would be terrible. He would swear up and down that he wasn’t talking to anyone else or seeing anyone else, yet when he’d come over he’d leave his phone in his car and say to me specifically it was to “protect his privacy.” W..T…F..I think I probably should’ve expected this considering he left his wife for me in the beginning! I wasn’t necessarily ok with that at the time, but because he and I first met when we were 16, had secret crushes on each other then, and then “found” each other again in our 40’s, I thought that it was a sign that we were meant to be. How stupid of me. At this point, I feel I’ve done irreparable harm to myself for what I’ve allowed him to get away with. He has lied, cheated, betrayed my trust in so many ways, yet I continued to engage with him, always with hope that better days would come because we had such a strong connection and chemistry. Four days ago he texted and asked me to spend time with him. I said no. I have not heard from him since. I want to take that as a blessing, but at times I feel it is a curse. I check my phone, hoping for a message from him but at the same time hoping I can build up enough strength to NOT want to hear from him ever again! I’ve done this loop with him sooooooooo many times, I’d be embarrassed to say how many. I can relate and empathize with everyone here. We are all dealing with our own madness in the end of our relationships with the N’s and I feel for everyone and your shared experiences. It helps me greatly to know there are others out there like me…who were once strong-will, confident, outgoing people who have turned into emotional doormats for people who get off on hurting others. I know I will never allow my now 10-year old daughter to ever experience this kind of trauma in her life…I wouldn’t allow if for one moment! Yet I’ve allowed it for myself for many years. The madness must end! I’m on day 4 of NC and I plan on continuing, hoping each day I gain a little more strength and hope that if the day comes he reaches out again, I will have the COURAGE to ignore it and feel my sense of self build again. My best to you all!!
“Anyone can be fooled once. The second, third and fourth times , require your participation”. These strong words are what keep me from EVER looking at, engaging with or dating a Narc. You can smell the odor wafting from them like raw sewage. I have been NC with my X Narc husband for 2 years, divorced since April. I have no desire to ever speak with him again. All of the horrible things he did to me are proof enough that he is undeserving of my time or my precious energy. I have not dated in three years, on a journey of self discovery and relationships are out of the question until I reach the goals i have set in place for myself. I am one step from reaching the last goal. Career change. However, those Narcs, they seem to find you wherever you go. I have a man who has been intermittently pursuing me even though I have told him I am not interested. He is a wealthy prominent local businessman. (I believe he has never been told no )The texts, the videos, the pictures of his house, feigning spiritual devotion, delivering food to my work, having his employees shovel my sidewalk. I talked to him ONCE on the phone in the beginning and told him I was not interested. That was in February .Lots of texts inbetween, never responded. April I gave him his second warning that I was not interested and that he again did not comply with the boundaries I had set in place. Labor day, more texts after seeing me at a public function…I never responded. Today, i get another text asking me to drinks or dinner under the guise of friendly companionship. I again did not respond. That sick feeling in my stomach returned, you all know what I’m talking about. So yes, I have learned much about myself, the world around me and what I am willing to tolerate after the toxic, Narc marriage I was in. No second or third or fourth time for me. I love my single life, love working on me, spending time with my postive, encouraging tribe of women, and my adult children and grandchild. It is enough for me right now. I read all the stories and my heart aches. Know your worth, never give up and realize, Narcs abound. I don’t think I would of made my way out of the darkness without the help of this blog and the people in it that shared their stories . I was not crazy nor was I alone in this horrifying experience. As always, thank you Savannah. Your beautiful, insightful writings keep me coming back to remind me never to fall down that slippery slope again.
It’s been over a year of NC. Got an email this morning in my “trash” folder.
Yeah, I filter/labeled him to “trash” in Gmail. But I still see his emails.
The remark was sexual…I can’t and probably will never tell anyone. It’s just too humiliating. Fxxxed me up mentally.
So after moving it to “inbox” and torturing myself for a few hours, I deleted it.
I have read this post before and have never commented. Today I just wanted to sit up a little straighter.
God help anyone who meets and is sucked into the most painful experience of their life.
I never saw him coming. But this dude had been studying me for several years and put out some sunami moves that would have knocked even the most guarded girl down. He knew what windows and doors to try and there was just enough of a crack is all it takes for the mist to enter.
Looking back I can see the manipulation. He’s what the shrinks would call a “somatic” narc.
Yeah, and I’m ms. co-dep. Better with that one too…
I’m not over the situation, the idea of someone in my life is petrifying. I’m ok with that…but at least I’m not tore up in emotional knots.
Enough of giving him too much of my day!
Thank you for the kick in the butt
I love the list by the way. I have read it everyday since the 26th I have it printed out in my handbag, on my wall at work, along with many of your article sections that hit me like YES.
Savannah you are the rock we all need in our lives. Thanks so much
Hi Savannah,
I left a reply on 24/10/16 after reading your powerful article.
I mentioned my Narc had blocked me from her phones, and it was 2weeeks of no contact. Disappearing Act she does so well.
And BANG 2 days later on the 26th she rocks up at my door with not even a message to let me know she was coming. Such a pattern, but why? ,she has someone else.
Same lines of I miss you and you know I love you”, so I get caught up again. Then after the sex she starts saying awful things to me, but kisses me passionately goodbye and leaves me gutted AND I just shake it off thinking she doesn’t mean those awful things. SHE LOVES ME….WTF why does my head do this.
My heart is so ripped apart.
So I will start no contact again. I have emailed her this time to say stay the fuck out of my life, and not to turn up in a cab whenever you feel like it. That’s a big thing for me to actually initiate the fuck off out of my life statement. She emailed back with “Ï am sorry and will leave me alone and never meant to hurt me” What a LIE, or a funny way of showing it. Love sucks when will it stop hurting???? Crying becomes a natural daily thing.
So whish me luck 🙂
Thanks for listening again.xxx
Go, go, go, all of you.
Had a hoover yesterday after a YEAR! Like what? In two lines it contained a lie. What an effing insult. And through a hobby group contact that I need to sort out.
Thanks to this site I’ve moved on.
Working on me. Not him. Go away. ‘S like a gnat buzzing about. Just want to splat it.
I love the list! I’m printing it out and putting it up somewhere I will see it regularly.
Your blogs have been SO helpful and they have kept me from contacting my ex on many occasions during the last couple of months while I try to end it with him for the last time.
I saw him at a social event yesterday but I managed to keep our interaction as brief as possible and with the help of a friend I was able to just walk away from him without getting sucked in. Today I was feeling bad about it and wanting to hear from him. So here I am. I have learned that if I just read a couple of your blogs I can get my head straight and get back on track. Hopefully it will get easier and easier to forget about him and eventually he won’t even cross my mind. I deserve so much better than him. Thank you!
I have had all the ifs’ but am so addicted I’ve give up, he just completely pleases himself. I see him every 2 weeks now as he works away. He supposed to stay with me for the weekend, this last one was extended to Tuesday but on the last 3 occasions stayed only the fri night, sulking the following morning to create a row (full blown out of control behaviour in public) an excuse to leave.. I am sat here now having been ignored by him from Saturday afternoon (a part from Monday evenin he made a plan to meet at 6 for food only to cancel 20 mins saying he’d like to go to the gym for a few hours) I felt gutted and reacted saying leave it and I was having an early night I’d ring him the next day. he was adamant he wanted to see me but I refused and rang him the following morning, trying as always to make it clear to him what he is doin and that I can tell him his next step…. he ends up screaming and blaming me and now has blocked me…. all I want to know is that he is ok…. the anguish I feel is gutting…. I know this is it but just let this happen every 2 weeks… it’s hopeless how can I get away from me still wanting this? 6+ yrs later …..
Thank you for your blog I get a lot out of them… gives me support. I need away…
Beautifully written.
Thanks Savannah, great post. The “if” list says it all, taking no prisoners. Totally clear and it’s so liberating when the penny finally drops. Power to all of you on here who are still extricating yourselves from that devastating emotional involvement.
The post about childhood here interests me very much. In an effort to understand why I am, work on self esteem and clear some rubbish out of my head, I recently wrote down all the spiteful remarks I could remember my mother making to me, from the age of two or three until the time I left home and some after that. They must have had some effect because I’m sixty now and they still stood out above any of the nice things she did. I want to lay them to rest, with her, although at the moment more are still popping out.
I can’t ever remember trying to discuss why she did it, or even answering back. Just closing down and getting out of the space. Need to work on that one.
Brillaint this is so good and written so it totally cuts to the chase. I have spent far too much time trying to understand the behaviour of Narcissits but fortunately I now have an awareness straight away fo the personality type. At least that is step 1.
So so true!!! The moment I stopped trying to figure out why or where I went wrong and realized the disorder NPD or psychopath, the light bulb went on and I could totally focus on healing me and guiding my kids in more independent thinking. No contact is absolutely vital, and it’s so much easier now to spot those early signs, not let the drama in from anyone. My friendships are genuine, good, reciprocal in that inner circle. I send strength vibes for all of you in the trenches, your inner work will pay off. Thanks Savanah
Oh Savannah. Perfect timing for me to have read this blog. I have been feeling so sad and miss her so much. I moved out 4 months ago and I have had no contact for 2weeks. I’m in the lowest of valleys at the moment, waiting for the Peak to come again.
She has moved in her new girlfriend, has blocked me from her phone (I know that I should be happy about that)and her FB page. I am still so in love with her.
9 Years with someone you thought you would spend the rest of your life with, who said we would be together forever and she loved me so much. We have the matching tattoos that say “my love”. WHY………but that’s it – No empathy, no ability to realise how much they have hurt us. People break up all the time and move on, I get that……..but as a codependant I struggle every minute of every day. All I want to do is see her and try to tell her what we had and not to throw it away and we can work it out.
WHY……she has cheated on me betrayed me blocked me out of her life, abused me, bullied me, belittled me and I still cant stop loving her.
Your article came into my email like a message from the angels because I’m sure I would have tried to email her today to say Hi, What are you doing?
Unbelievable timing. Thanks so much for being here for me and thanks everyone else. I’m so glad I’m not alone and the only one that feels this way.
xxxx
I have made a decision today to go no contact. Its not the first time but it will be the last. I’m determined but incredibly sad too. Its been 14 years and the last 4 have been triangulating me with second woman he dumped me for. Ive been weak an selfish myself. Addicted to him. No boundaries atall. Just cant figure out how I got to this place of giving so much gor so little and at any cost to myself and children…just to have some crumbs of him in my life. I think I’m being described in that blog. I’m glad I saw it today cos I cant take any more. I’m stuck and I will never move on if I keep letting him back in every time he wants. Ive a long struggle ahead and I hope to find the support I need in places like this. If I reread the blog it helps to remind myself that he will never understand or see my point of view. Always lie and cheat and always think only of his needs. Most of all he will never change. I need to be free. Thanx for the blog. Xxx
I have a theory about our need to understand; I know it applies to me. As children we did not understand why our care givers acted the way they did. Many of us were abandoned in different ways, physically or emotionally. A child doesn’t understand — I did not know that my twenty year old parents with 2 little kids were in way over their heads, I didn’t understand that my father was an alcoholic, etc. So I got used to that feeling of “what did I do to cause this? I must have done something wrong or bad. Maybe I am just wrong or bad, my whole person?” I was confused and anxious when others did not treat me the way they should have.
Fast forward many years — I had the same feelings with my narcissist. I was always confused and anxious. Is it me overreacting to her just being friendly — or is it wrong to go out to dinner alone all the time with “old [male] friends and to flirt all the time and to ignore me until she was bored? The feeling of confusion when I was being mistreated was very familiar from my childhood.
Narcissists exploit these feelings of confusion. They exploit everything and everyone. They can’t help it and can’t see it and never will.
But just Savannah says I had to learn to not focus on the N and her motivations and reasons. I had to learn to ask myself how I am feeling and whether I like the way I’m being treated. Now I keep the ficus on me and my own feelings.
I no longer care to figure out narcissistic motives and purposes. I just need to figure out how I feel when other people do what they do.
Hurtin’ Cowboy
Hurtin Cowboy, thank you for that response, that really helped me. I’m going to write down the part about concentrating on how someone is making ME FEEL rather than WHY they are making me feel that way! Like instead of “why are you doing this to me” , just thinking, “I don’t feel good with this person. I feel anxious, scared, nervous, unsure. ” I’m really tired of feeling like a weak person, even though I know that it’s not my fault, and I”m not weak, but I do realize i have to stop always wanting to figure people out. I need to realize that it’s detrimental to ME, even though it’s a big part of me! It’s what empathetic people do. But you know what? I’m hurting myself doing this, and I want to stop hurting myself, I want to love myself and respect myself more than i apparently do. A narcissist is what he/she is, they are not worth trying to figure out, hope you’re doing better! like in our heads we realize this is a jerky person, but we keep trying to believe people are good underneath!
“You don’t owe someone your undying support and commitment because they have problems.”
I struggle with this one. I DO have limits and my support is not undying. But as someone with issues of my own it isn’t always simple for me. My boundaries and self esteem have been warped and that of course affects how i perceive things, how they affect me, and my responses to them. I had a blowout in the spring with a long term friendship. I suspect they have NPD but regardless of that I didnt handle things as well as I could have. Perhaps i’m codependent, i dont know. Basically I kept my mouth shut for most of the relationship b/c I learned early on the drama that came with any type of criticism or boundary setting with this person and I decided it wasn’t worth it. I’d rather tolerate boundaries being stepped on than ever have to deal with that level of drama again. There was a lot about the person i liked and they were a fairly good friend. They showed caring, concern, were not entirely self absorbed, and they were a core relationship. They just could not take any criticism including if it was me having a boundary. They became immediately defensive at the slightest hint and went immediately into react, attack, and blame. If I said something they did hurt my feelings it was immediately “I’m so hurt that you would say that. I cant believe that you could say that to me/are treating me like this/talking to me this way/doing this to me . . ” It was an IMMEDIATE “Abracadabra-Let’s make this ALL about me right f’g now” and we would spend a massive fight with all sorts of mind warping distractions and accusations thrown about (by her) I totally did not know how to handle it the two times this happened so the other unknown # (lots) of times she x’d boundaries I just kept my mouth shut so I’d never ever have to deal with it again. However this last time I did have more tools. I kept calm and focused and when she went ballistic I just stated that I didnt like the way she was talking to me and i hung up. She’s sent quite a few texts and emails which i havent responded to (the original sin was me requesting that my boundary of no text or emails, in person only communication, be respected) So I finally got a apparently genuine, remorseful apology message that I havent responded to. Therein lies my struggle right now. I believe that friends should be there for each other and friends take you warts/issues and all. (with some limits of course i wouldn’t stay with an abuser) Yet as i just wrote that I am faced with the fact that her behavior was abusive. My dilemma is this; I want (need?) to respond to her b/c i have been trained that is what grown ups do. They talk out their issues. I want (need?) to say to her that I cannot handle her behavior. I am SO stuck with this one. On one hand I need to finally have a voice with her and say that her behavior is unacceptable. More for my own self worth and peace of mind than anything. Yet on the other hand I know how she reacts to criticism and/or me having a boundary and i really fear the potential response. I really do fear it. Yet I know i would be able to handle it if she went ballistic. I guess i also dont want to hurt or reject her b/c i know how it feels. I also care about her and struggle with not being able to accept her as she is b/c i have been taught that is what friendship is.
ishudbworkin I love the way you expressed yourself here and your experience so mirrors my own it’s uncanny. I spent a lot of days repeating to myself, “I’d rather have her in my life than be right.” Very occasionally she would have an absurd scene and freak out over nothing, but for the most part she was my best friend and we had so many great things in common. Check out my blog The Day I Broke Up With My Best Friend. I realized that these episodes were going to keep happening and I wasn’t going to tip toe on egg shells around anyone. As I got healthier I understood that sometimes we outgrow people and that’s ok. I still love her, but I love her from afar, her behavior earned her a ticket out of my inner circle. As I grew I changed and the people around me changed. I like people that I can fully depend on, who don’t create drama, who are kind and compassionate – those are the ones in my circle now.
Savannah – great job on a most salient and lucid analysis/advice post. The “list” of what not to tolerate should be posted at bridal registries and maybe lease agreements! Really important stuff – I’m goint to post for my middle school/high school kids to see.
Insightful, direct and to the point. I really enjoy your blog.
Savannah, I love your bluntness, & I am encouraged every single time I read your blog. I am currently in the middle of a separation-soon-to-be-divorce from my N, & I am so ready for the DRAMA to just be over, so that I can live in peace! I am more than ready to completely disconnect from the N; to get the healing that my heart deserves; & to move the eff on with my life.
As an encouragement to others who are struggling/in the same boat:
• I have no money & am unable to work at this time (I have recently realized that many of my mysterious autoimmune issues were psycho-somatic). This was something that used to please the N very much–the more sick I was, the more attention he could pay to his disturbing addictions. Having only been out of work for the last 3 years, the N used up all my savings (to the tune of $10k), bc he was a compulsive liar & very “talented” at sneaking around & claiming my medical bills were the reason for the loss of my savings!).
• I don’t depend on my family for much (you know the saying that you always marry one of your parents? It’s true! & I have worked hard at setting strong boundaries with mine. I am not abt to set myself up for failure in that regard–even if it means living in a shelter or panhandling, ha!!
• As the N refuses to leave our home, I now live with a friend who has graciously opened her own home to me —on the condition that I find freedom & emotioal healing.
In the beginning, I felt like I had no friends; after living in an illusion for the last 12 years, the N had carefully extracted me from the connections that I had with friends & many who would have gladly helped me years ago, had I wised up sooner & gotten out!
But even so, I am safely away from the toxicity of his gaslighting, compulsive lies, & never-ending emotional, verbal, & sometimes sexual abuse.
>>>
I am still in survival mode & will be working with a trauma therapist for a long time yet…but the point is–if I can escape & have hope for a future & a better life, then ANYONE can do the same! The best thing is knowing that I AM NOT (nor ever have been) ALONE.
Blessings & best of luck to everyone struggling to move on.
The one thing that you got through my head Savannah is the fact that an N/S/P cannot bond, love or attach to me, their children or anyone else. It was hard to wrap my head around that fact but when I did, CD dissolved and I was free of my addiction to him. It took months and months of work to do this. Thanks to you, there was no second IDD cycle. If I met him again now, I would run for the hills because I can see right through pity plays and love bombing. And if anyone ever fools me again, I will be able to walk away for my own sanity and survival. Its true that New Supply is for thrills and Old Supply is for torture.
The list of behaviors is very helpful. Wondering what was done after the water fountain discussion at work. I work in a church and it is always frustrating to me when because of faith beliefs we are to “forgive and turn the other cheek.” For someone who is chronic co-dependent (and a pastor), this is always very difficult. We are supposed to love someone even when they treat us badly? Frustrating!!
Barb the boss took the CD to his therapist which we thought was the best solution. You can love them just do it from afar.
Excellent points- any advice when the grandchildren are used as pawns?
Your list of “If…”, should be in every psychologist’s office. I went to so many looking for a way to understand what I was doing wrong!
After 27 years I finally ended it, but slowly and painfully…still giving him every chance.
During that time he gained control of my younger son, who is 21. I guess he brain washed him or threatened him as all of a sudden my son withdrew from me.
Two years ago I left them and moved to the opposite coast. I still try to contact my son, but he does not respond. I went there to see my son and we talked a bit, which I was really happy about, but he does not answer his phone, text or anything. He would not let me hug him or even shake my hand. I used to think leaving the N earlier would have hurt my kids. It is my regret that I did not leave earlier. My son has shunned all of his friends and just lives with the N.
I keep texting and staying in touch with my son, but no response.
Wow. Thanks for that. I needed it. I have been feeling guilt and sadness this morning for kicking him out three months ago. I moved all of his stuff out while he was at work. Met him at the door at the end of the day and told him to go back to his old house.
This article has relieved me of some of that guilt. I always feel sorry that I may have hurt him, even though he hurt me and my children emotionally 100 times more. I guess it doesn’t matter whether he felt hurt or not. Or whether it was my doing. In the end, it had to be done. Best piece of advice? ‘no genitalia is worth all that’. Thank you. So true.
Wow Savannah… You really laid it out there. Hoorah. I have got t link this from my page. Hope you’re okay with it. I emailed you on December 31st 2014 trying to figure out how to get myself out of the mess I was in. I read all of your blogs beginning that night into the wee morning of a New Year. I cannot tell you how your blogs have helped me. I even started my own and on an occasion or two linked back to your’s. I’m so much better, rid of a narcissist and moving myself right along. Once I figured out it wasn’t me, nothing I had done, I was well on the road to recovery. Then when I realized he was just a low-down dirty, rat-a bastard of a human being (LOL), an honest-to-goodness mess-and-a-half I recovered! I don’t even remember what day I went into full-blown “no contact”. I just did it and kept it moving. It’s all about me right now!