Unfortunately, I don’t have the time to get back to all the questions I receive every day. Here’s a few great ones from this past month that I’m sure others can relate to. I’ve changed the names, places and descriptions to protect the author’s identity, as well, I’ve edited down the original text for spacial purposes.
Q. I have read your blog for a while now. The reason why I am reaching out to you is because the girl of my dreams just married a narcissist, who she has been engaged to for the past year. I know this is going to sound insane, but I have known for a while now that I wanted to marry her. I have only met her a few times before she met this narc, although nothing ever came of it. I do know from the pit of my soul that her relationship with this guy is toxic and that ultimately things will end in divorce. What I would like to know is when that time does come, how can I reach out to her and help her to heal (I know she will need time) from this awful situation? I just want to know what I can expect to see and when they finally split, what can I do?
A. What can you do? Well, I hope this doesn’t sound disrespectful, because that is not my intention, but I would suggest that you stop living in fantasy land and start living in reality. You’ve only met her a few times and look at all the time and energy you have invested into something that doesn’t exist. You don’t know her. She could be a horrible person. She decided to marry someone – that is not you – that’s all you need to walk away – she chose someone else. Period – that’s the end. You’re waiting for her to get divorced, so you can move in, make your move and if all goes as planned, you’ll come to her rescue and she’ll fall madly in love with you. That’s madness, not to mention manipulative. You’re waiting and hoping for a divorce that may never come. What a colossal waste of your time and energy. Your dream is that she will step in and take the starring role in your life and then your life will be complete. What you’re not grasping is that you’re looking for your happiness…your life… outside of yourself. She can’t make you feel complete, only you can do that. You need to step up and take the starring role in your own life and forget about this fantasy relationship, because that’s what it is. Codependents are massively empathetic and other person focused – both of these traits, you, no doubt, seem to posses. My suggestion to you is to read up on codependency, learn how to focus on you and become the star of your own life and let go of this.
Q. Just came across your posts when doing a little more research on BPD. I became interested in it when a psychologist suggested that the behaviour of my former partner was indicative of one who suffered from BPD, with possible traits of co-morbid Narcissism. She displayed many behaviours associated with BPD – low self-esteem, extreme sensitivity, delusional jealousy – a significant problem related to her unfounded belief that I was having affairs with other women – her real infidelity, mood swings, including giving me the “silent treatment”, sudden and inexplicable explosive rages over inconsequential things, problems making friends and maintaining relationships etc… The notable exception of BPD behaviour was significant self-harming behaviour, suicide threats, or attempts and she was able to successfully maintain employment. She fits the category of high-functioning BPD. Our marriage failed and she blamed me for its failure subjecting me to weeks of abuse before abruptly leaving with no warning. I was able to pick up the pieces although, as I found much later, the damage lingered on. But the reason I have for writing to you is that many of the blogs you have written about Narcissists and their behaviour could, also be applied to people with traits of BPD. I have read several of your blogs, including the comments and I kept on saying, “Yes, yes, yes, that is exactly what I experienced.” I wondered if you’ve written about BPD and what what your thoughts are on how it relates to NPD?
A.This is a great question. Thanks for reaching out. All the cluster B personality disorders: Borderline, Histrionic, Narcissism and Anti-Social Personality Disorder, do have over-lapping traits and behaviors. If one meets the the DSM criteria for more than one disorder, it is possible to be considered to suffer from both, i.e. the term comorbidity, which you mentioned. Some of my readers have created the word narco-path to describe their partner, who exhibits both NPD (narc) and APD (psychopath) behaviors. You will find in much of the reading about Narcissists, that it is a disorder that affects more men than women and that BPD affects more women than men. There are some distinct differences, for instance BPD’s can be self-harming and/or suicidal. You generally don’t see that behavior in Narcissists. Narcissists can be very arrogant, attention seeking, manipulative and vindictive and you don’t often see that in someone with BPD. I haven’t written on it specifically, but I’m sure I will in the future.
Q. I’m going through a very difficult time. I never saw this coming, although I’ve always known something was off, I just couldn’t figure it out. I questioned many things he did and said and was always met with anger. I’ve been very hard on myself since discovering what he is, mainly because I allowed myself to be taken advantage of. I sent a very nice text message stating I needed to move on. That was 4 weeks ago and of course, I never heard back. I’ve done extensive reading in that time and have many questions, but I’ll just ask just one. We live in the same area and we have managed not to run into each other and I’m certain he has found new “supply”, I have blocked his email and number, but if “hoovering” happens and No Contact makes them angry and they want to discredit or get back at you by trying the “nice, sweet act” he has not done that. If I were to run into him I don’t know how I should act. I don’t want to give him anymore than he’s already taken from me. The thought alone that he took so much from me and is out there happy, living his life, feeding off another while all the while really hating me, knowing that every word and action was a lie, that I was completely manipulated, that I only served a purpose and was never loved or cared for is the most devastating experience I’ve ever had. When does he get to experience unhappiness if he always is able to obtain new “supply”? I cannot get past that part of it. Thank you for your time.
A. Some Narcissists just discard and that’s it. They don’t bother ever coming back. Some will boomerang back and forth, if enough time has gone by, (so that the sting of their most recent indiscretion has lessened) and they have a need and believe that you are still willing to fulfill that need. How should you act? Indifferent. If he says, “Hi,” you can nod and acknowledge his presence, but nothing more. Acting hostile, angry or upset gives him supply, publicly ignoring him gives him supply, acting nice and friendly and striking up a conversation, gives him supply and lets him know that you are still available. You want to give him nothing – no indication that his presence effects you in the least. You can be civil, but that’s it. Narcissists are really only capable of having very superficial feelings. No one means much to them. Their behavior isn’t about you. It’s about them and their disorder. He didn’t do this because there was something wrong with you, or because you were unlovable. He did this because he is sick. That’s the reason. They need supply like they need air. That means that sometimes they step on people to get it, whether they meant to hurt that person or not. Please make sure you understand the difference. When does he experience unhappiness? Every day. It’s no picnic being a Narcissist. They suffer from extreme anxiety, cripplingly, low self-esteem, fear of abandonment, they cannot regulate their own self-esteem, so they must constantly seek out other people to obtain it from. That’s exhausting. And they have to do all of this while wearing a mask, that’s supposed to show that everything is completely awesome in their world. They live a lie every day. Their default emotions are anger, contempt, envy and jealousy. Would you like to live like that every day? Just being with someone does not equal happiness. People are a means to an end for them. There’s nothing to envy about that.
If you have a question for me and don’t mind sharing, please send it to esteemology@gmail.com with the title ASK SAV. Please make sure all questions are under 350 characters.
Image courtesy of iamharin at freedigitalphotos.net
A means to an end you say but I am still confused about the end. I understand they get attention money sex etc. but. Ah hell never mind.
I keep trying to weigh the bad with the good to figure out if he is a narcissist or not. Done horrible things yes but also good things. I don’t understand how it all evens out. It’s so confusing. I feel like my mind is tricking me.
I conceived in absolute clarity my own dysfunction and I saw in him not an enigma but a robot. An empty thing, a unwavering outward shell, yet full of fear and longing.
And this was a couple moments of clarity. Now my thinking mind can’t comprehend as fully.
P.S.
From my story you could get the impression that I very lightly identify my former man friend as a narc on the basis of one narcissistic rage attack; this of course is not the case, it is after more than 3 years of all the behaviour that meets the list of the NPD. The red flags were there from the beginning, but I had myself, as many of us do, manipulated in my thinking and lured into a “relationship”. Since the break up I have educated myself thoroughly upon the subject.
Dear Savannah,
I have been reading your wise and helpful blog since my sudden discard now 20 months ago. I walked away with my head up high when in his extreme rage about some incident he asked me to leave his house, and I discovered almost immediately after that, that he is a textbook overt narcissist. I think it was not really his intention to be final at that moment, but mine was as soon as I found out what he was. Went cold turkey no contact, and did everything necessary to pick up the pieces and try to move on. I have gone through all the stages like anger, depression, sorrow, withdrawal etc., battling through the hurt but managed until today to keep no contact. I am not on social media, blocked his phone number, ran into him a few times in town but did not pay attention to his loud greeting. Could not get his mail blocked and received a few over this period but never responded. Also kept all his enablers out of my life. I dare say that from nature I am a strong, independent person who is very well able to live her own life and not dependent for a man to make my life happy. Have had a 20 year marriage (no narcissist although selfish) and also longer periods of living alone. The lesson that I have to do it mainly on my own was learned in early childhood in a disfunctional family. But I am also a woman with a normal need for intimacy, a valuable bond with a loving partner. I try not to go into all kind of details but come to the burning question, or in fact two questions, that are bothering me so much while my life is reasonably back on track. The first is: how do I get over this need, not so much for revenge as for justice done. The narcissist has been taken back by his wife who threw him out after over 20 years of marriage because of total lack of commitment and constant cheating. And then I came in the picture. But she did not manage without him and now they are playing happy couple. I happened to see this on a picture in our local newspaper, and heard from someone. Of course I know by all my extensive reading that what you get to see is mostly not what it is behind closed doors, but still…..I find it so hard to accept that he seems to have his safety net secured (she is much better supply than I was, gives him status and money and has probably not figured out yet about narcissism) and gets away with all his bullshit, and of course keeps doing what he always did, with his harem. Which brings me to the second, even more burning question: how do I finally get the switch turned off, still thinking about him every single day, when I wake up, when I go to sleep, and few times during the day. All this spinning, having images in my head of him doing it with other women…..This must be my ego talking, because I would for nothing in the world want the man back in my life. Am so much longing for the first day to come that I have not thought of him at all. In this I really do not understand myself, because my life is reasonably satisfying, I have my son and grandchildren, strong friendships, nice colleagues, my hobbies, can experience pleasure again. So why can I not get the whole story with the narcissist out of my head, why bother? I really hate this, want to let go, want indifference to the man. I hope you can shine your light on this. Your comments are always spot on and clarifying.
Dear Savannah, I have been reading your blog for about 3 years, since I split from my ex husband, who I found to have been cheating with a “friend” I let him go on road trip with. ( A 4 a.m. text about how she couldn’t wait to be sleeping in his arms again…I kicked him out, packed my shit and was gone the next day.) He had previously left me for some girl before we were married and I mistakenly took him back, and put my blinders on to avoid my lack of trust in him. I found frequent e-mails to exes, that crossed bounds of emotional cheating…( like, “I’ll always have a crush on you…” and things like that. After I left, I found further evidence of questionable behavior with other women.
When we first were dating, I was dating another person as well, and did not cut it off sooner than I should have and ended up hurting this ex, which we gave it another try and I did everything imaginable to gain his trust again. (When he met me, we met through a girl, I found out 2 years later that he hooked up with while he pursued me.) I never held it against him, that he was simultaneously dating someone, as I was too, at the beginning; but I took responsibility for my deceptive behavior and made amends. I was young, 20 years old; my future ex-spouse was 11 years my senior.
He was so offended that I was dating someone else in the beginning -even though we hadn’t made our relationship “official” at that point- and held it against me our entire relationship. Instead of telling me to hit the curb, he used my mistake as an excuse to cheat on me our entire relationship. I don’t believe he has NPD, but he is selfish, entitled, and passive aggressive with his manipulation tactics. He was always on the fence about me, and never wanted to marry me, ( but sure wanted me to have his baby,) and spontaneously proposed and I said yes, ( as I was 9 months pregnant.)
Our child was a very high needs, emotionally speaking, child. We didn’t sleep for over 3 years, and I was expected to take care of all the motherly, wifely, household and business needs while he frequently vacationed without me. When our son got older, he repeatedly undermined any request I had of our son, in front of me and made me feel like a bad parent. My parental requests were not unreasonable yet he would tell me not to upset our son. My son, who’s now 6, tells me his dad lets him do whatever he wants-my ex has always given our son whatever he wants as soon as he threw a fit. Yes, I resorted to extreme acting out behavior, because I often ignored my own needs and self care. But when I did ask my ex for a weekend by myself, after a year and a half of everyday commitment, he called me selfish and berated me in front of his best friend. He would take off and leave me with the baby, on bike-rides, snowboard and rafting trips and ditch me for his hobbies and friends. When I wanted to have a hobby, like gardening, or doing my radio show, he made sure to make me feel like I was neglecting my responsibilities.
I am glad I found out about this man’s affair, as I am finally free of the toxicity, guilt, control, manipulation and not feeling good enough, or allowed to just be me.
It will be almost 2 years since our initial divorce ( we were separated for 3 years while he went back and forth between me and her until I finally said no more.) He is remarried to his affair partner the beginning of this year. I dated someone after we separated, even though we were still married, so I take responsibility for my infidelity; even though he was already living with her-apparently I was the only one committing infidelity, in his eyes, even though he got with her while we were together. He blamed me for divorcing him, made me out to be crazy, and while yes, I was crazy for a bit being sleep deprived, overwhelmed with no support, being constantly lied to and possibly some post partum depression ( my recovery from birth was very traumatic_-I was bed-ridden.) I wasn’t always nice to him during that time, and I begged forgiveness and work hard to forgive myself everyday for my behavior during that time, so I understand why he alienated me and went somewhere else.
I guess my whole point of this background (sorry for the gross details,) is that the 2nd reader question, about his ex displaying BPD, I don’t know why, it totally triggered me, like they were words pouring from my very ex, as a means to deflect responsibility and feel better about cheating. He is excellent and dodging responsibility, even as a co-parent. We have very minimal communication now, but even that is difficult to navigate. I will admit that I did display some BPD symptoms, ( of course I was afraid of him abandoning me, he did it so many times before and I let him.) I was depressed, because he was allowed to go play while my weeks turned into a never ending day, I tried to check out. I was crying out for help, and yes, I could only see my side of things. When I explained to him that I felt like he didn’t have his love or support when I needed it most, he called me a victim. I’m not a victim- I have hurt and been hurt. I take responsibility for where I allowed myself to stay and become vindictive….I have not dated for 2 years as a commitment to myself, to become a healthier me and make healthier choices. My relationships are better, and the ones that were holding me down and toxic have disappeared.
I am thankful for your blog and am thankful you have found the means to become a free, powerful and self-sufficient woman, as you give me inspiration. Please keep up the good work. 🙂
Thank you Savannah.
I admire your no-nonsense approach. I am pretty much sure that you perfectly know that some of us are not ready to hear such blunt truths. We sometimes ask, or comment looking for pity and wishing for answers we want to hear, not what the true answer really is as we often know the truth ourselves but just can’t accept it. Can’t fool you! 🙂 You know us, codependents, just like you know Narcs.