I went out to dinner with my neighbor recently and the topic of conversation always seems to gravitate to Narcissism and Codependency. I’ve known her for quite some time, she is a lovely person – thoughtful, cheery, considerate and we have great conversations, which to me, is pure gold. A few months back she asked me my opinion of her relationship. It was a typical Narcissistic/Codependent relationship. This was their 4th trip on the merry-go-round. Each time he would end up leaving her for someone else. I told her, “End it, he’s only going to do the same thing again. Be done with this. He uses you, and then tosses you aside, just as soon as someone else walks by. Cut him loose.”
She explained to me that she was so over him emotionally and that she just had such a great connection with him and enjoyed his company so much that she wanted to stay in contact and be friends. “You can’t have a casual relationship with something you’re addicted to,” I told her. She argued her point and I let it go. If you’re not ready for the truth – then you aren’t ready.
She didn’t heed my warning and every time I saw his vehicle parked in front of her house I cringed. He eventually did exactly what we all knew he would and she was devastated afterward, but a little less each time.
Her upbringing and her romantic relationships mirrored my own, so we have a lot in common. The biggest difference between us though, is where we are on our paths. When we got around to the topic of Codependency at dinner, she said, “I have some of that, but I don’t think I’m one.” I kind of looked at her like she had three heads. I learned long ago that this particular individual could be very argumentative and on most other topics I could point out indisputable proof and she would continue to argue her point, so I let it go. You can lead a codependent to water, but you can’t make them drink.
“I’m not a doormat,” she said. “I fight back.”
What is Codependency Really?
If that was her definition of a codependent then I wasn’t one either. I contemplated all of the differences in my clients. I’ve had several with PhD’s, a couple of lawyers, accountants, a millionaire, some that own their own successful businesses, some are stay at home moms, some have retail jobs, public service jobs and some are on assistance. Some are aggressive, some are passive and some have a multitude of issues. Most of these individuals are smart, funny, optimistic and amazing people. Not all of them are passive zombies that walk around saying yes to everything.
The thing that all codependents have in common is that, in their romantic relationships, they give a lot more love, care, respect kindness, understanding and attention than they receive. They’ve become conditioned to expect less and not to ask for more. They stay way too long when they shouldn’t and they tend to lose themselves in the relationship.
Aside from that, codependents come in all shapes and sizes. They have different personalities, different occupations, different temperaments, different socio-economic statuses, some are only affected in a romantic relationship, others suffer from their codependency in all aspects of their lives and in all of their relationships – romantic, familiar, business and social.
Dr. Ross Rosenberg, whose work on Narcissism and Codependency I greatly admire, classifies codependency in two subtypes: Passive and Active.
Passive Codependents are the martyrs. They are submissive and stoic. Doormat-like. They put up little resistance and have given up hope of controlling the Narcissist.
Active Codependents fight back. They’re willful and manipulative. They try to catch, trap and change the Narcissist. They can be mistaken for a Narcissist.
I tend to think these definitions of Rosenberg are a little black and white. While my neighbor might fight back, I don’t find her to be manipulative and I’ve never mistaken her for a Narcissist and conversely while I may have been passive to some degree, I never gave up control, or hope that I could change my Narcissist.
Rosenberg believes that Codependency is a symptom of Attachment Trauma. He claims that it is an early childhood adaptive response to a Narcissistic caretaker, a defense mechanism that allows the child to cope with the abuse, neglect and deprivation.
Children born into this environment must learn how to please their Narcissistic caregiver. If they figure it out they get rewarded by either attention and praise, or by not being abused. Rosenberg states that a Narcissistic Parent will neglect or abuse a child that does not meet their needs. Children learn to adapt by becoming invisible. They learn to hide in the shadows and suppress their emotions. They learn how to pretend that everything is ok and most outsiders have no idea what’s really going on.
He also states that these abused or neglected children develop a premature maturity. They become the caretakers of their Narcissistic parent or of themselves and siblings. Many are described as being, ‘old souls.’ They are stoic. They mute their feelings and sacrifice their childhood to make their abuser happy.
Codependent children were never taught that just being themselves was all they had to be, that they were good enough just the way they are. They weren’t taught to appreciate their own individuality. They were taught to be perfect little children, who were the perfect extension of their imperfect parent. Their sole purpose for being was to make their abuser feel good or look good. If they couldn’t then they got the brunt of their abusive parent’s abuse, while better coping siblings got the majority of praise and attention. Codependent children were never loved unconditionally and thus believe that love in romantic relationships always comes with conditions. They feel comfortable with cruel and selfish partners and believe that they have to give more and accept less.
Codependents aren’t all doormats. They look different, they behave differently. Some are really successful outside of their personal relationships and some are constantly the recipient of bullying at home or in the work place. There are a lot of variables, but generally the origins are quite similar.
Try as I might, I can’t make my abusive mother a Narcissist. She just doesn’t meet the DSM criteria. Did she emotionally abuse me? Yes. Did she neglect me? Absolutely, but it doesn’t make her a Narcissist. Trying to fit everything into a one size fits all box is foolhardy and unnecessary. The only question that matters to your healing is: Do you give more love, care, respect, understanding and compassion than you receive from your romantic partner? And do you stay when the relationship is long since over? If your answer is yes then you have codependency issues that need to be addressed. It doesn’t matter what you call it, but you always have a choice – you can choose to remain in denial, or you can choose to do something about it.
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Your friend has mumpsimus. It’s a dead word in the English language that you can find in unabridged dictionaries. It means, “a stubborn adherence to a belief despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.” I hope she recovers from it. 🙂
I like this word.
Once again your Blog parallels my own counselors advice to me. What has been hard is to see the narcissistic behavior in my parents that made me this co dependent. I know it stems from there. and i know its a feeling of having to do to prove myself worthy of love. My own N have been gone for months. She contacts me about trivial this and that’s that I strive to not answer. But each e mail is like dangling a drug in front of me . i crave to answer it back and hear anything from her. even when One came through full of negative attacks I found myself able to close it down and throw it out without finishing it. I have come to realize through your blog and my own counseling that I no longer need to endure that poison for the sake of her attention. I see my greatest challenge in recognizing that one loving woman out there that will love me for me and not what i will do for her to make her happy. There’s a fine line there. But I hope with the help I find here as well as in my counselors office to find it and walk it slowly and confidently.
I agree Savannah – trying to make people fit into discrete boxes ignores the reality. My mother and step-father weren’t narcissists, they just weren’t home! I was left to run the household and try to keep the younger siblings in line. My mom was in college and was always working on her studies. She didn’t want to be bothered, so I took her place. Once I looked at the situation from the viewpoint of what creates codependency, It made sense – she was emotionally unavailable for a large portion of my youth. My dad was always working long hours to pay for everything. My brother was the narcissist… I think that was his reaction to the situation.
My mom stresses about that label because she was taught that narcissists can only come from bad parents. Were they bad? Not really – they were trying to make our situation better but we all react to that differently. It is a form of neglect, however well-meaning she was. I can forgive my parents and now I can see how I became a people-pleaser. It’s in the knowing that we can change.
Since I began learning about NPD and then co-dependency I’ve learned so much about myself that I’m now able to change some of my behavior. It’s a struggle and so against the grain, but where I used to think that because I felt strongly that something had to be done a certain way I now realize that it’s my co-dependent talking. It doesn’t have to be that way!
I so enjoy this blog. It’s the only one I immediately read and respond to… Thank you, Savannah!
How do you work out Codependent issues?
I have been reading your articles for about 10 months. I’m at the end of a off and on again relationship with a narc I believe.. I was at the point a few months ago from the worst mental emotional and physical abuse he ever put me through. He was an addict and is now sober due to being in jail. I has a restaining order against him that neither him nor I were following. The last time I seen him I knew I had to stay away for good. I changed my number and was determined to stay away for the well being of myself and my kids. They started to witness the abuse which I didn’t know til they later told me. I have good days and bad days as we all have. Could you please point me in the right direction of some material to read for self help of being Co dependent. I’m at a all time low and need to come out of this fog. Thank you
Hi Tina – I have a tab on the left side entitled Savannah’s suggested reading but you can’t see it on a mobile, which lists all of my recommended books. The one’s I found most helpful – Dance of the Wounded Soul – Robert Burney, Codependent No More – Melody Beattie, Conquering Shame and Codependency – Darlene Lancer. Hope this helps.
Thank you for your timely article- it’s like you know what we need to read. The word “codependent” hurts me even though I know I still hold the some of the traits. When I first confided to my ex N that I had some codependent traits because of my upbringing from a single mother who was an alcoholic, for two more years he would call me “a pathetic codependent who can’t be alone” whenever I stood up to him during his abuse. I have been in No Contact for 5 months (longest I’ve ever made it!) and to be honest, it’s hard for me to own that title. I think that word brings up trauma for me. When I think of that word, I see my awful ex holding out a branding bar and burning me so deeply to make sure I’ve been branded as “codependent” and no one will ever love me because of it. I have never felt so “needy” in my past relationships than when I was with my ex N. I clung so tightly to his “crumbs” like it was a drug. Living with that monster was just like I was a child living with my mother again and waiting for her to sober up and “see” me for once.
Now, I stand my ground in friendships and family- of course I am sometimes more willing to do for others than they would for me, but I would not call myself a doormat. I always tell myself that the day I left my ex N and went full no contact even though he’s tried busting down my door- that shows me that I’m not the “pathetic codependent who can’t be alone” after all. It’s funny how some N’s use this word against you to hurt you, but in all reality, they can’t be alone. I eat alone, I sleep alone, I drive alone and I sit alone with my thoughts and that’s something I didn’t feel okay with when I was with him. I’d rather be alone than with a demonic human who spreads hate. At least I don’t screw or prey on every living being that crosses my path. That’s seems codependent to me! They have no self respect, empathy, love, kindness or humility….but at least us “codependents” do.
Sarah –
It’s typical N behavior to elicit information from us during the early overvaluation stage, based on the intensity and sense of intimacy they cultivate — then use all those deep dark secrets against us. They do it to exert power, to show their superiority (as they see it in their made up world), and because they are deeply jeoulous of our authentic emotional lives. Your N turned “codependent” into a label of scorn but it’s not at all.
Melody Beattie is a terrific writer on codependency. She often talks about the hidden gifts that this set of issues confers on us. If you are sympathetic to others and highly aware of their feelings; if you have above average empathy for people, especially those in pain or sorrow — you have codependency to thank. Some writers call us “wounded healers.” Look at all the good that Savannah does with this website. That must build her self esteem to know she has transmuted her pain and suffering into a great gift she bestows on others. I bet you have that in you too. Don’t buy what the N was selling. Your path has led you to recovery and you will probably help others some here down the line. But the N will never know how good it feels to heal, and then to pass on that healing and serenity to others who need it.
HC
Hi there – Read your blog often. Can I reblog this? I didn’t see a button to do so…
Hello Fashionjitsu yes you can repost this just copy and past the url link.
Both main points are true in my experience. Codependents do not inevitably wind up with narcissists, and the core of codependency manifests in our special love relationships, ie, with romantic partners.
I’ve had relationships with stable, healthy women, love avoidant women, and one narcissist — which was enough for one lifetime. When I was young I think the love avoidant type was most common but not exclusive. I was never an N magnet as some people describe themselves.
But whatever intimate relationship I am in the core issue is the same: my anxiety over being abandoned is the biggest issue. This cane not from narcissist parents but young overwhelmed parents who had some issues (mostly alcoholism in my father) but were otherwise decent people. They just neglected me as they were just kids with two little kids of their own.
The core issues I’ve had center in fear: fear of being alone, unprotected, vulnerable in the big world. These issues do not generally manifest in career issues; in fact the neglect at home led me to seek approval at school so I have a long list of fancy university degrees etc. In my professional life you wouldn’t call me a doormat. I shy from conflict but am not a pushover in any way. Where the abandonment issues show up is with romantic partners. The N in my life devastated me but opened my eyes to my neediness and willingness to take enormous loads of crap to keep a relationship going. Fear of the loss of a woman’s love drove me. It stems from abandonment in childhood. Once I realized this and worked through the primordial terror that was trapped in me (warning: not a quick or fun process), I was largely free of it. You would not know the difference between me before and after this by looking on the outside – work etc. continue as before. But this change inside — night and day.
@Cowboy — I’m glad you pointed out that you are the last person anyone would suspect of being a co-dependent based on your work success and persona, because it dispels the assumption that victims of abuse and codependents look or act a certain way. It could be ANYONE — even those of us who SEEM pulled together!
I’m a workaholic type and have achievements in a field that many people (mistakenly) think is glamorous. When I’ve told people about my relationship with my Narc, they were in shock or had a hard time believing me because of who I am/who they think I am thanks to my work facade.
“They were taught to be perfect little children, who were the perfect extension of their imperfect parent.” This says it all.
Thanks – great article. I have always struggled with the label ” Co-dependant”. I really like Ross Rosenberg’s move to change the label to SLDD ( self love deficit disorder) …..that label resonates and makes much more sense to me. 🙂
Such a great article Savannah…I was able to relate to so many of your key points. Thank you so much for sharing with us. Helps more than you know.
I would be interested in how you came tot he conclusion that your mother was not a narcissist. I believe from what I have read so far that my mother is.
Cchar333 she does not meet the DSM criteria for NPD.
Thank you for your posts. I always read your blog, because the majority of the time I can relate. Co- dependency is so powerful. You think you’ve overcome it, and takes you by surprise it seems. Vicious cycle. And a fight between the head and the heart, at least for me it is.
Thanks for providing clarity to the co-dependency issue. I often wonder if there is a trend to label every partner in a love affair as a narcissist. That’s when the DSM definition helps. Your explanation of co-dependency makes a lot of sense and I can certainly see myself in your description. This helps bring awareness to the way we are conditioned to respond. Expecting less is a big part of co-dependency that I have been able to pinpoint in my long relationship with my ex narcissist. I am so happy that I broke the chain of co-dependency and I think I have grown to recognize this destructive behavior. Thanks for a very helpful article.
Gosh, your articles fascinate me! It really makes me think and push aside the thoughts in my head. I loved my narcissist to the point I lost myself. It’s been 16 months and I’m still moving forward. I had a lot of guilt but the more I read on here the better I understand. It wasn’t me! It was the dumb ass I was with. He has now taken up with someone that has a lot of assets and I know his game. That poor woman will never know what’s coming her way. I pray for him all the time in hopes that he will see the scars and the hell he put me through. (Of course he won’t, it’s all about him) There are times when I miss him but I known better things wait for me. Thank you for your articles you post you have no idea how much it helps others that won’t admit the are codependent.
I dont feel my parents were abusive. The gave a lot and expected a lot. I was always a people pleaser and I was happiest if I knew I helped my parents or made their life easier in some way and thought they valued me for that. I am sure they meant well when they praised me, but for me it started working like a drug. The more they praised me the more I felt love and appreciated and the more I wanted to please. I was a kid. I DID NOT KNOW, that my paretns would have loved me the same even if I did nothing and if I did not help and please them in one way or the other. And I so needed to hear it: We just love you for who you are. Even if you misbehave, do mistakes or if we get angry with with you. And you are perfect just the way you are. As a result I actually tossed a relationship with a good, decent man who was giving me all he could and with whom givin and recieving was totally balanced and went for the “love of my life” – emotionally unavailable man, Narcissist of the highest rank, whom I ´ve broke my heart years ago and who just stormed into my life and decided that he “wants me back”. And I totally fell for it. Felt “the chosen one”. Threw away all I had and instead, played the usual games of cheating, lying, fighhting, breaking up and saying sorry for 5 years. I was left hear-broken, financially ruined and emotionally drained. I lost touch with my true self and I lost most of my self respect and self love. Now I am alone and no contact for a month. I am realizing how much better my life is. How peacefull I feel. And I know what I will never allow anymore. I would rather be alone enjoying my life than suffering emotional devastation. And if and when I accept a new man in my life, it will be someone who will bring something to make it even richer, better and brighter than it already is. 🙂
Now you have me thinking ……
Got to go to the beginning, to make sense of the now